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Iraqi deputy on Iran-Iraq affairs, Islam, misuse of Holy Koran.

Dubai Al-Arabiya Television in at 1110 gmt on 26 June carries a new 45-minute recorded episode of its "Spotlights" programme, featuring an interview with Iyad Jamal al-Din, an Iraqi intellectual and Parliament member. The interview is conducted by anchorman Turki al-Dakhil in the studio.

Asked whether he is a secular person in Islamic attire or an Islamist talking secular language, Jamal al-Din says: "I am neither Islamist nor secular," explaining that secularism cannot be used to describe a person, but a political regime. As a non-Islamist, he says that he read the Koran very carefully and did not find a description for the word 'Islamist,' reiterating that "the descriptions that were stated in the Holy Koran included descriptions for a Muslim, believer, polytheist, and hypocrite, and there is no description for an Islamist in the entire Holy Koran." He adds that the description for an Islamist had never been mentioned in the Prophet's Hadith, neither in Sunni nor Shi'i narrations, or in the Nahj al-Balaghah [book of decrees and guidelines by the first Shi'i Imam, Ali], reiterating that "this description was newly used and emerged after World War II." He says: "This term was used in the wake of World War II to describe Islamic political movements, which are political movements using religion as a ladder to reach power." He explains that these movements have the right to use the Koran to achieve this end.

Asked to elaborate on this point and to explain how these movements have the right to use the Koran to assume power, Jamal al-Din, says the Koran has been used and abused for the achievement of political objectives since the day it was revealed, explaining that good people were executed, states were established, and other states vanished in the name of the Koran. Asked to explain why he has been adopting an antagonistic stand towards Shi'i Islamic political movements, Jamal a-Din says: "I am adopting this stand equally against both Shi'i and Sunni movements, because I consider them political movements like any other politicians, and they have to be as such; but the way I see it is that they have no right to utilize holy shrines for temporary political objectives," reiterating: "Many political forces in Iraq that utilized the Koran to achieve earthly objectives disadvantaged themselves and harmed religion and their worldly existence."

Asked to confirm whether he rejects the idea of forming political groups based on religious grounds, Jamal al-Din says he is against the formation of political groups on ideological foundations in general, including religion, explaining that political blocs should be formed on the basis of political programmes, not on the basis of promoting religion or any other ideologies. Asked whether religion was utilized in the recent provincial council elections, Jamal al-Din confirms that it was, saying that "all religious, ideological, and sectarian heritage and all grudge and hatred against others were manifested during the elections." He adds that Shi'i and Sunni election campaigns were charged with the enmity of one side against the other.

Asked whether the quota system that was stated in the Constitution of new Iraq had strengthened the principle of disparity among the citizens of the one people, Jamal al-Din says: "The Iraqi Constitution did not frankly point to quotas for social components; rather, it simply referred to the need to create balance among these components; that is, no government should be formed by one component only, and did not lay the ground for sectarian quotas, which currently exist in Iraq. This quota issue is political and fails to reach the constitutional or legal level. Strong calls have been made by some Shi'i coalition sides and some Sunni Al-Tawafuq ranks to establish a commission to maintain a quota balance; that is, a commission to be in charge of the sectarian quota." Asked whether he supports these calls, Jamal al-Din says he categorically opposes them, "because the sectarian quota works against human beings and human rights and it is shameful to humanity." He explains that although various categories of the society do not enjoy rights, a human being should have rights. He says the Iraqi individual is more precious than Iraq and the human being is more important than place or time. He adds: "When someone classifies the people into Shi'i, Sunni, Kurdish, and Turkomen blocs, he is actually erasing the Iraqi individual, because these blocs are fictitious, not real, while the individual is real." He wonders whether the conditions of the Shi'i poor have improved during the past six years while the Shi'is have been in power.

Continuing, Jamal al-Din says: "I am part of Iraq's democratic and modern project, while others are not, because they are promoting a project that calls for returning to the past." Asked to specify what he means by others, he says they are the Islamic political sides, including those in power, who believe that "the past was better than the present, while I believe that the present is better than the past and that the future, God willing, will be better than the present."

Asked whether he will find a candidate in the forthcoming elections that does not belong to his religion or sect, Jamal al-Din says: "Agreement on political principles, visions, programmes is the base, not the religion of the people or an individual," explaining that the politician is like the physician in that a sick person does not ask about the religion of the physician, but about his efficiency and integrity.

Al-Dakhil notes that most political candidates in Iraq try to obtain blessings from religious authorities before running their campaigns, and he asks Jamal al-Din whether he supports this inclination. Jamal al-Din says religious authorities are authorities in their field of specialty, not all fields, and those who seek Al-Sistani's blessings are begging to obtain some type of popularity by using Al-Sistani's popularity, reiterating: "Those who respect Imam Al-Sistani should not use him as a ladder to reach power." Asked whether the same problem will be repeated in the forthcoming elections, Jamal al-Din says "the people are now more aware of realities and will not be deceived by religious slogans," adding that religious authorities will refrain this time from supporting one side against another.

Asked whether the political and social role played by Iraqi religious authorities is appropriate for the current Iraqi situation, Jamal al-Din says religious authorities have enormous duties to perform in the religious and social fields, but cannot and should not play any role in the political field, because they should not take sides or form political parties to run the elections. Asked whether he calls for containing the influence of religious authorities politically, he says these authorities can participate in the elections as individuals, but not as religious authorities, adding that the involvement of religious authorities in politics and their running of the affairs of the state were a catastrophic experience.

Al-Dakhil notes that many sides, particularly the Sunnis, accuse Iraqi Shi'is of collaborating with Iran, and he asks Jamal al-Din to confirm whether this is true. Jamal al-Din says: "Many Sunni figures and political forces inside and outside Iraq have close relations with Iran," explaining that Iran is defending its strategies, rights, and interests and is utilizing all Iraqi sects to fulfil this objective. Asked to talk about the scope of Iranian interference in Iraq, he says Iran has enormous influence in Iraq, particularly as the Islamic revolution did not dismantle the Shah's intelligence apparatus when it came to power, which was the arm of the CIA and Western intelligence; rather, this apparatus continued to be effective and was utilized by the revolution. He reiterates that Iraq's dismantling of the intelligence networks that Saddam established was a mistake and a loss. He adds: "There is clear Iranian interference and there are Iraqi political forces and parties that were established in Iran, financed by it, and whose religious allegiance is to Imam Ali Khamene'i." He wonders how Iraqi rulers can pay allegiance to the leader of another country, and says this is why religion and politics should be separated. Asked what solution he has to this dilemma, Jamal al-Din says: "The solution lies in the hands of Iraqis, as they have to distinguish between the political forces that work for Iraq's interests and the forces that take orders from an Iranian Revolutionary Guards officer."

Asked to explain how he defends the Mojahedin-e Khalq Organization's status in Iraq, although this organization attempted to kill him in the past, Jamal al-Din says he was the target of an assassination attempt by this organization in 1981, reiterating that he is not defending the presence of this organization in Iraq, but he is actually defending Iraq's dignity, particularly as new Iraq is a state of law. He says "if this organization caused harm to Iraqis, Nuri al-Maliki should send its members to court. They deserve trial more than Saddam, because Saddam was an Iraqi that killed his own people, while the members of this organization are not Iraqis and yet killed Iraqis." He adds that he supports the presence of this organization in Iraq, because Iraq has no cards to play against Iranian interference except this organization. Asked to confirm whether Iraq should use this organization as a political card, not only to defend Iraq's self-esteem, Jamal al-Din confirms that defending Iraq's dignity comes in the first place, after which this organization should be allowed to practice peaceful political and media activities against Iran.

Asked to talk about the role played by Shi'is in Arab countries, particularly Hezbollah, which is loyal to Iran, Jamal al-Din says: "It is difficult to criticize Hezbollah, using political standards, because it is defending an Arab and Islamic sacred cause; namely, the Palestinian cause. Thus, nobody can claim that Hezbollah does not defend Palestine. Since Arabs and Muslims consider Israel their enemy, and Hezbollah is at the top of those who are confronting it, it is difficult to find a political gap through which Hezbollah can be criticized." He adds that looking at the other side of the issue, Hezbollah has political aspirations towards establishing an Islamic state in Lebanon and has been using the Palestinian cause to fulfil this objective, similarly as all Arabs have been using it for the fulfilment of their own objectives.

Source: Al-Arabiya TV, Dubai, in Arabic 1110 gmt 26 Jun 09